11/13/09 – “The Last Time”
Posted: November 13th, 2009 | Author: Matt The Cat | Filed under: Rock n' Roll | Tags: Friday Night Cat Fight, Matt The Cat, Podcast, Rolling Stones, Staple Singers, The Last Time | 13 Comments »“The Last Time”
This week, The Friday Night Cat Fight returns to its original format. The shows will now focus more on the Cat Fight itself and less on a “theme”. There will still be long-form shows from time to time, but they will now be separate from the weekly Friday Night Cat Fights.
This week, we take a rock n’ roll classic from the Rolling Stones, “The Last Time” from 1965 and trace it back to its gospel roots. Listen to the show to determine which version of the song you truly DIG THE MOST and then vote for it. Also, this week, there is a 2nd poll asking whether or not The Stones completely ripped-off The Staple Singers’ gospel tune OR did they rewrite it and make it their own? You decide and please, VOICE YOUR CHOICE over “The Last Time”.
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I enjoyed the Staples Singers’ song better, but don’t think the Stones ripped them off. The Staples’ is so gospel-y and the Stones’ is so much pop, definitely engineered to be a hit. Both stand on their own.
Stones for me. I know lots of prowlers, including the furry leader, dig the soul and R&B, but that’s never been me; just can’t get into it, and we’ve had so much of it lately. Miss the long show though; hope you’ll do more of them, even if they’re not themes, and even if separate from the FNCF.
I don’t believe anyone was ripped off here. The songs were too different, even though the names were similar.
I like the Stones version a lot but the versions are very similar, tempo aside.
I can’t believe it but I liked the Stones version better, but having said that I do believe they should have given writing credit to the Staples Singers as it was very simular. Thanks again Matt I hope you are having a wonderful birthday
Interesting. I like The Staples and I don’t think they got their due. There’s no doubt in my mind that The Stones heard this song. However, aside from variations of the one line, the two songs aren’t the same. I’d call it an organic out-growth, not a straight cop.
My comment is a three-parter: a. I dug The Staple Singers original intrepretation of “This May Be The Last Time; b. I definitely think the rolling Stones took great liberties (ripped off) the Staples on this one; and c. Please reconsider and bring back the long form Cat Fight shows. The themed Cat Fights are, in my opinion, the best Cat Fights of all time.
I do like the Stones more but I have to agree with Timevac3 in saying the Stones definately heard the Staples before they “wrote” their song. I also agree with Virginia in saying that the Staples should have been given some credit for the Stones version.
Matt, I hate that you won’t be doing the themed long version every week. They are always great!
Yo Furry Leader
I must say, that though I’m sad about the shorter cat fights, I can see your point. I can see how it’s hard to combine the Cat Fight with a themed show all the time. I’ll be looking forward to the longer shows you give us, and the Cat fights, as usual. I’ll take anything you put out. Either way, it’s a whole lot better than no shows at all.
As far as this week’s cat fight goes, I had to give it to the Staple Singers. I really liked the harmonies, and that great tremeloe guitar.
I really don’t think the Stones ripped off the Staple Singers. I can see the inspiration for the Stones version, but it was different enough to make it a seperate song. It’ s kind of like comparing, The Lion Sleeps Tonight,by hte Tokens, with Pete Seeger’s wimawaih. Same idea, different song.
Keep up the great work, and I’ll be waiting for whatever you put up. You’re the best.
KEEP ON PROWLIN!!!!!!
I prefer the Stones version. I think they did a lot more with it than the Staples did, and found a memorable-hook guitar-riff that made the song a hit. That’s a feature, not a bug.
I didn’t vote in the second poll. The Stones definitely made the song their own, so I agree with that. But I’m undecided on the question of whether the Staples got ripped off. It’s isn’t clear to me who really wrote that song. Wikipedia and another website describe “This Could Be The Last Time” as a *traditional* gospel song.
Many gospel and folk songs, in particular, are “traditional,” or have an unidentified writer. If that’s the case with “Last Time,” then, no, the Stones didn’t rip anybody off and legitimately took full songwriting credit for their version.
But if the Staples had legitimate songwriting credit for “This Could Be The Last Time,” then, yes, the Stones did rip them off, and the Stones are lucky they didn’t get sued for royalties. Wikipedia quotes Keith Richards as saying their version was adapted from the Staples’ version.
The Stones willingly, in 1997, gave k.d. lang and Ben Mink shared songwriting credits and royalties for “Anybody Seen My Baby?,” which was inadvertently a chorus-chord copy of k.d. and Ben’s “Constant Craving”. And the Stones and Andrew Oldham ironically sued and won a lawsuit against the Verve for sampling orchestral parts from the Stones’ recording of “The Last Time”, and got the royalties for the Verve’s “Bitter Sweet Symphony”, which IMO seems a bit of a judicial overreaction, since the Verve had a partial license to use the recording; it’s not like they were trying to deceive anybody. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Time_%28song%29)
Well it is true that many gospel, blues C&W songs have a root in a traditional melody or lyric, the Staple singers DID publish “This May Be The Last Time”. Now, whether or not they can then claim credit for it, is a matter of opinion. But legally, they did publish it. I’m suspicious of Keith saying that the Stones got “inspiration” from it, but yet didn’t give The Staples publishing credit. It’s true that in 1997 the Stones gave k d Lang and Ben Mink credit on “Anybody Seen My Baby”, that only came after threats of lawsuits when the single was releaed. All was straightened out by the time the “Bridges To Babylon” LP came out. Alan Klein sued The Verve over “Bitter Sweet Synphony”‘s use of the instrumental sample. The Stones as a band were not involved in that lawsuit since they don’t own the publishing on the tune (Klein holds the publishing on all pre 1971 stones compositions) and they don’t own the masters either. Klein passed away a few months ago to the joy of many. Today, when the Stones play a pre 1971 tune in concert, they must pay royalties to Klein’s company ABKCO since they don’t own the publishing. -MTC
Don’t know when I’ve left so many comments; sorry. I’d love to see you bring back the long shows, but they wouldn’t have to be themes. A 10-minute cat fight like the ones on Xm are great, but over too soon, as we get to here you only once a week now, as opposed to every night. But as others have stated, I’m glad for anything you post here, and I know the efforts to put these podcasts together take time away from you and Kelly. Have a blessed and happy turkey day!
I did some more reading on this, and yes, Klein and estate did demand, win, and get all the royalties for Bitter Sweet Symphony. There’s a part of this, though, that illustrates how inconsistent and screwed up some of these cases have gotten. There’s no obvious “sounds like” link between Bitter Sweet Symphony and Last Time to most listeners. Yet in the wake of the legal dustup, Mick and Keith did wind up with *all of the songwriting credit* for Bitter Sweet Symphony, and when BSS got a songwriting nomination in the Grammys, it was Mick and Keith who got nominated for writing BSS! Just nuts. It seems that in order for Klein to get the royalties, the Glimmer Twins had to get the songwriting credit, which Klein demanded and got. The Verve settled it that way because they felt it would be too expensive to fight Klein in court.
I’ve heard the story differently about “Anybody Seen My Baby”, and I’m not seeing support for Matt’s version online. What I heard was that after the track was recorded, but before it was released, the Stones realized there was a clear infringement, and their people approached lang’s people (who had not yet heard the record) and a deal was cooperatively struck with no threat of litigation.